Impeachment process
political gamesmanship
Editor, Times-Dispatch:
How do we know that the current impeachment process is nothing more than beltway high jinks? Because we already know the outcome before the first vote is taken. The Democratic-led House will vote to impeach President Trump because they believe it is in their political best interests. The Republican-led Senate will subsequently acquit President Trump because they believe that will serve their political best interests.
The impeachment charade has nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of Donald Trump. Rather, it has everything to do with gaming the 2020 presidential election. I am pretty sure this is not what the Founding Fathers had in mind when crafting our constitutional republic. It's no wonder our congressional leaders are less trusted and less popular than the Internal Revenue Service.
David Rayner.
Richmond.
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Eaton Wrote:"Trump broke the law with Bribery, Campaign Finance Law, and the impoundment law"
You left out emoluments and treason... your 16% of government has had their fun. Pretty soon it'll be time for the Senate to dispose (of all of this bull Schiff). The Constitution giveth - and taketh away.
I reply: So..You're aware of Trump's crimes and don't care....Thanks for confirming what I suspected. Yep the Russians would be proud of you...
Putin’s useful idiots like Tommie are doing their master’s bidding... trying to sew discord among American voters. But normal trusting Americans, who used to assume cons were making their case with facts, have wised up and now fact check the lies.
Rump supporters, sadly, still buy the lies.
“Trump Knew of Whistle-Blower Complaint When He Released Aid to Ukraine”
So much for that Republican argument “well the Ukrainians got their aid, didn’t they?”
As though an attempted crime isn’t also a crime. I guess the republicans would be as soft on attempted robbery or attempted murder.
News update for those of you trapped in the impeachment bomb cyclone. New polls show Biden back in the saddle with Mayor Pete making major gains. Warren tanks with Medicare for all fiasco, claiming no middle income tax will be required. Sanders static with same policy, only claiming that middle income taxes will be required to fund it. With two white men staking out the Democrats version of left of center, Senator Amy has asked why not a white women who is not bat poop crazy left as a viable candidate? (By the way, going forward I will only use the first names of candidates who have last names I cannot spell). Harris and Booker have vanished after their Spartacus moments. Yang testing $5000 monthly free money ploy which appears to be a hit with the focus groups focused on free stuff. Meanwhile, Trump pardons turkeys and has huge campaign rallies overflowing with people who absolutely worship him. (Cool aid anyone?) Finally, some polls suggest that Trump is gaining in the black vote. ( Hey, could happen. Did ya'll see all of those black men holding the same signs supporting the Coliseum project? Explain that!? Disclaimer: Most of this information was gleaned from Fox News or other fair and balanced news sources. (Rush, Jeff Katz, etc.) It appears the other news sources such as CNN and NBC and affiliates are also imprisoned in the Impeachment bomb cyclone and incapable of covering anything else. Happy Thanksgiving!
Thanks for the Faux News update. It’s amazing how they get so much wrong
And I hope ALL news sources are extensively covering the impeachment meet of an American president so the American people have all the infomation they need to vote him out next year.
Thanks for the MSNBC Fake News update Flaky Drakie. It is not amazing how they get so much wrong … the lies begin with them and from there idiots like you spread the bad news. Hallelujah, Checkmate, and period.
Sorry, Spacy Peter. That was all real news. As Jim mentioned above, Faux News gets it wrong over and over. Annnd touchè!
TRUMP NATION does not exactly, ahhhhh, DO TRUTH... Normal... ~~~ Bob
Jim
Your analysis of Dems is meaningless. You’re not going to vote for a Dem which means you’re going to help Trump. Spare me your babble. Once the nominee is decided we’ll come together to beat Trump. I don’t need a play by play from a Trumper.
Hal Did you have a sense of humor before 2016 or have you always been this way? And it does not matter how I vote, Trump will not win Virginia.
Hal, in addition to that all evidence is pointing at the wheels coming off Trump's criminal enterprise. Giuliani and the Ukraine, McGahn/Bolton and the courts, popular sentiment about impeachment, the list goes on.
Jim, you left off the growing evidence that the wheels are coming off Trump's criminal enterprise. We see more and more verifiable signs that he has lied over and again, that his lawyer Giuliani is steeped in corruption in the Ukraine, and the just about every court decisions is going against Trump. Just a matter of time before Bolton, McGahn, Mulvaney and others have to testify to Congress. And just a matter of time before they start pointing fingers at each other and at Trump, trying to throw the other guy under the bus (it has already started). Thieves tend to do that, there not being any honor among them
You also accidentally left out the tidbit that DoJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz has debunked the Trump meme that the FBI spied on his campaign in 2016 and that Obama had his phones bugged. Oh, what a surprise, Trump lied..
If anybody is "imprisoned" in the fake news cycle it may well be people like you. You have to be just a little impaired to cite FOX NEWS at this point. Try reading and listening to the BBC, Reuters, ABC NEWS, etc.for "real" information. When 50% of the American population now favors impeachment and removal your assessment may be questionable.
Just trying to offer a little Holiday humor to the humorless. I should have known better. Happy Thanksgiving anyway, if you can find it in you.
How do we know “beltway high jinks” is Faux talk for “please don’t hold our president accountable for his crimes”? Why, because of the sheer paucity of republicans willing to stand up and say that what Rump did in Ukraine was absolutely how American Presidents should conduct foreign policy.
Meanwhile, they are willing to fight a battle that, even if they win, will lose the war as they support precedents that the next Dem prez will surely use in 2021 to turn the government true blue!
Eaton Wrote:"Trump broke the law, Trump betrayed our nations national defense, Trump attempted to bribe a foreign government to interfere with our elections."
Read your constitution - this is for the Senate to adjudicate. And I hope they take their time... because as long as this debacle is underway Senate candidates cannot campaign.
I don't really think the LOUD House has thought this through... which is the point of my initial post. Letting a gaggle of knee-jerk Rambo's loose in the (no longer) hallowed halls of Congress was a terrible idea, one that Pelosi / Chucky will have to live with - for 4 more years.
I reply: I'm aware of what the Constitution says and the fact that the GOP Senate will acquit Trump....That doesn't mean he didn't break the law and betray our nation...That just means that Senate Republicans are afraid of being primaried from the right...The good thing is that we'll use this Senate vote to help take the Senate back next year....I'm fine with that outcome because as soon as Trump's not president he'll be indicted and arrested. Win Win
"That doesn't mean he didn't break the law and betray our nation"
That's exactly what it means - you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer are ya?
As far as Tommie is concerned, if you commit a crime and your friends let it slide it isn’t a crime. This is what is wrong with conservative America.
Well, it has changed in VA and it will change the same way in America. Law and order Democrats will not let Rump slide.
Eaton, that is exactly what it means. He broke the law even if Republicans put party before country and honor. Obviously logic is NOT your strong suit.
"Eaton, that is exactly what it means."
Glad you agree - the Senate will give this farce more attention than it deserves... and after calling their witnesses and exposing the LOUD House's lies / malfeasance give it a big fat thumbs down.
What do subversive Dems (aka Blame America Firsters) know about country or honor... to them patriotism is a form of oppression, and parodies are the order of the day. You / yours have had 3 years to come up with a high crime or misdemeanor - and just like everything else you attempt you've failed miserably. I hope you enjoy the next 5 years - I know I will.
“You / yours have had 3 years to come up with a high crime or misdemeanor”
Tommie sounds like the criminal blaming the judge for locking him up. Rump committed the impeachable act. It just astounds normal Americans that it took him 3 years with his record of malfeasance (Trump U, pussiegrabbing,etc.).
The cons who elected this crook carry the blame for this mess. The Democrats will return America to a country of law and order, unafraid to crack down on crime at any level.
Oh... and WHEN is Mexico going to pay for that wall?
Eaton,
Stupid is your middle name....Trump broke the law with Bribery, Campaign Finance Law, and the impoundment law...He betrayed our nation. The fact that the Senate GOP will betray their oaths of office and let him remain president has zero to do with his crimes....
"Trump broke the law with Bribery, Campaign Finance Law, and the impoundment law"
You left out emoluments and treason... your 16% of government has had their fun. Pretty soon it'll be time for the Senate to dispose (of all of this bull Schiff). The Constitution giveth - and taketh away.
Emoluments, Treason AND assault of women Tommie. Don’t forget the assault charges working their way through the courts. Why ANY American would ever vote such damaged goods for a second term astounds normal Americans. And the House, representing the majority of the population will go after everything Rump tries to pull. Oversight IS their job, afterall, ant the majority of Americans want this malfeasance exposed.
Oh... and WHEN is coal coming back?
“Trump said he'd save coal: Two more producers go bankrupt with 1,800 jobs lost”
Mr. Rayner, I see that retirement has not brought you enlightenment. "Gaming"? I think, based on evidence I have read an d heard from reputable people, that Mr. Trump tried to use American foreign policy and foreign affairs officials to advance his own re-election, and I believ e he continues to advance a theory (The Ukrainians did it!) that he well knows is false, to cover that up. I further believe that many members of his own party think these things as well, but are too craven to stand up and say so. His derelictions seem to be to well deserving of an indictment, and the Senate should give them a fair and complete -- and non-partisan -- hearing, and vote on them. Gaming? This isn't a game, Rayner.
BTW, for those keeping score, what FAT BOY did was violate campaign finance LAWS... We keep hearing the Trump supporters demand that we produce the LAWS that Trump has broken as if that is the end of the story... The answer is: LOTS OF LAWS!!! ~~~ Bob
Eaton Wrote:"it burns:
Sounds like you should consult your pharmacist...
I reply: The pharmacy will be no help...There's no vaccine for IRG's bleating nonsensically while trying to defend Trump....
Ruh roh - suspects are triggered this AM
[beam]
All one need do is remember Pelosi's comment RE this needing to be a bipartisan exercise - and then examine the vote for inquiry. This - like the Kavanaugh hearings - will redound to Trump's benefit... already is.
Poor emotionally AD Dems, this is what comes of allowing dudgeon to determine policy...
Eaton,
Us Dems are fine with the Impeachment progress and look forward to the Judiciary hearings starting next week. Trump is more desperate each day....Now he's about to throw Mayor Noun Vern 911 under the bus.....You keep saying that things will rebound and Trump will win out over us meanies.,....it's never happened yet....You said the same BS before the elections on the 5th and that didn't work out for you...You claimed the magic IG report would be the end of us...Nah...Now you claim that support for impeachment is lessening and we're doomed...Dude...Stop telling lies....It doesn't help and just demonstrates your IRGness...https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_the_impeachment_inquiry_of_president_trump-6956.html.
Eaton, “already is?” Yes, but not the way you may hope. National polls (including FOX NEWS) show that 50 percent of Americans favor removing Trump from office. And every day we still get more damning revelations about Trump’s criminal conduct. Yes, “already is, and getting better.
Normal Americans find this impeachment improv tedious / boring... and Dems are turning swing voters off in droves. Meanwhile Trump's approval numbers are climbing. IF you believe that this is a recipe for electoral success then I'll have some of whatever it is you're smokin'.
Eaton, Trump’s approval ratings have yet to crack 50 percent, right now they are 41.8. Is that “rising” in your world? And a steady 50 percent of “normal Americans” are calling for impeachment and removal. What does this say to you in your world, “Escape-istan.” Dream on.
Tommie seems to have deviled into the typical conservative mode of stating the opposite of what is actually happening when they don’t approve of what’s happening. Either that... or he just believes Faux News lies.
“Polls show Trump approval rating softening among GOP, independents”
Not only are independents turning from Rump... so are conservatives.
Normal Americans do not continue to support a draft-dodging, ignorant, corrupt sexual predator and pathological liar. And those who do, and who believe every word that comes out of his lying mouth, probably have enough of whatever they're smoking to give the entire country a profound buzz.
Eaton,
Impeachment is polling at 50% for impeachment and removal and 43% against...More BS from you..Your normal Americans didn't come through on the 5th and they'll be obliterated next November....
David Rayner …. come on man … you know as well as the left who haunt his forum, Trump’s impeachment has absolutely nothing to do with politics at all …
It is all about saving our “Constitution and Democracy” …… Ask either Mrs. Wiggins or Shifty Schiff ……
Those two understood full well why the Founding Fathers put “privacy” in the Constitution, where it plainly says that next to killing one's baby for any reason, impeaching a conservative clod who gets less popular votes than their Queen has to be impeached ….. but you cannot use that as a reason for the impeachment …
So …. since the day that Trump sent Lying Hillary to the bone yard, they have been impeaching Trump, but have just had a little trouble finding a crime that sticks to the preverbal wall.
But if you think the New Socialist have been sore loser since losing in 2016, wait till Putin, Trump and now Ukraine’s colluding, imagine how p*ssed they will be when Trump becomes the first Impeached President to become President in 2020 … and I do not mean Slick Willy. Hallelujah, and period.
Let's keep in mind that ***LOSING*** an election by 3,000,000 votes is ***NOT*** sending anyone to the bone yard... But keep LYING and GUESSING... That's about all you do here... ~~~ Bob
Spacy Peter is voting for an impeached candidate to become president. But then, he supports tearing thousands and thousands of immigrant children from their mothers arms and locking them in cages.
How low the Republican Party has stooped. Well, we stopped them in VA and we’ll stop them nationally. You go ahead and vote for an impeached president. History says you will lose.
Annnd touchè!
There is much to what David Rayner writes: Trump will be impeached in the House but not convicted in the Senate. But it is more than political theater, it is what our Constitution prescribes, and it puts to the test all of our national values.
No president can use government funds, properly assigned by the Congress, and use that money to bribe a foreign government to induce it to investigate a political domestic opponent. That is wrong on many levels, and that he was too inept to succeed in his machinations are neither here nor there and doesn’t really figure into the equation.
The hearings have shown, largely beyond a doubt, with testimony from Trump administrators, that Trump tried to do what House Democrats accuse him of. His impeachment seems a foregone conclusion. Our senators have to show the nation if they really believe that a president stands above the law, whether they will value country and decency more dearly than their party, and voters in their states will have to judge them in 2020 for their decision. I hope they will.
"it is what our Constitution prescribes"
Fake news - this is a purely partisan enterprise... the founders warned specifically about this.
"Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told The Washington Post in March that “impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path.”
Eaton,
Trump broke the law, Trump betrayed our nations national defense, Trump attempted to bribe a foreign government to interfere with our elections...These are facts....Babble all you want...It changes nothing...
"Trump broke the law, Trump betrayed our nations national defense, Trump attempted to bribe a foreign government to interfere with our elections."
Read your constitution - this is for the Senate to adjudicate. And I hope they take their time... because as long as this debacle is underway Senate candidates cannot campaign.
I don't really think the LOUD House has thought this through... which is the point of my initial post. Letting a gaggle of knee-jerk Rambo's loose in the (no longer) hallowed halls of Congress was a terrible idea, one that Pelosi / Chucky will have to live with - for 4 more years.
The longer the senate takes, the longer all those democratic candidates have to campaign without the Republican senators being able to spread their negative advertising. Win/Win/Win for the Dems/ the Senate/ the Nation.
Eaton, “fake news?” Is there anything in our constitution that requires impeachment proceedings to be bi-partisan? What in my post was “fake news?” Or did you once again fail to comprehend what I wrote, as seems to be happening to you more often of late?
"Is there anything in our constitution that requires impeachment proceedings to be bi-partisan?"
Is there anything in my post that suggests this?
Eaton, that is ALL your post says, and wrongly, as usual.
Here's what you say in your post of 8:27, Tom:
"Fake news - this is a purely partisan enterprise... the founders warned specifically about this."
Yep - the founders and Nancy Pelosi. She opposed it before she was for it... imagine that.
More fake news from Tommie. Speaker Pelosi was reluctant to start impeachment. As any intelligent, considered Speaker of the House would be, until the evidence against Rump just became too overwhelming to ignore.
“Two OMB officials resigned in part over concerns about Ukraine aid hold, official testifies”
“ Two officials at the White House Office of Management and Budget recently resigned in part over concerns about the holdup on Ukraine aid, a career employee of the agency told impeachment investigators, according to a transcript of his testimony released Tuesday”
Oh... and WHERE exactly is the great resurgence in American Manufacturing?
“Trump said he’d rebuild manufacturing. Now it’s in decline. What happened?”
More Republicans and their decayed morality. Trump makes slime look good.
Careful there Odell ….. your decayed morality friends on here will accuse you of name calling and having no substance …
BTW ….. how is your budget holding up with all the illegals staying with you before they become voting lefties in Mexifornia? Hallelujah, Checkmate, and period.
Careful there Spacy Peter... your decayed brain that lost the election in VA is on target to lose big in the nationals next year.
Annnd touchè!
WRONG, David... What we have is a serial CRIMINAL in the White House... He was a serial sexual predator when YOU VOTED FOR HIM... He was told by his lawyers that he had to divest his business interests before being sworn in or he would be in violation the Emoluments Clause (Article 1, Section 8) in the Supreme Law of the Land... Oh, David, since it sounds like you are unfamiliar with what that is it is the United States CONSTITUTION, David... BTW, that means that every day that YOUR CRIMINAL has been in office he has been breaking the law... Then, of course, there is the matter of over 250 direct contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russians that Mueller uncovered, David... Or the 11 Obstruction of Justice violations that Mueller reported, David... Or maybe Trumps violation of the Impoundment Control Act that YOUR CRIMINAL violated in putting an ILLEGAL HOLD on money for Ukraine... I literally could go on all night long, David... TRUMP IS A SLIMY TWO BIT CROOK, David... In other words??? YOU ARE WRONG!!! ~~~ Bob
David Rayner,
Reading your letter makes me despair for our nation...You whine about the government you elected or if you didn't vote you get the government others selected.....Here are the facts...Did Trump ask for a political favor from Ukraine? Yes. Did Trump withhold $400 million in military and make it conditional on performing that favor? Yes. Is it legally wrong to do that? Yes Does that mean it's a crime? Yes. Can a president be impeached for this type of action? Yes. Can you point to a political rival and cry like a little baby saying "well he should be investigated too! and magically think the crime committed by the President somehow gets negated or disappears? No. Trump broke the law.
It's been proven. All Americans should be angry about this since our national security was compromised. He will be impeached and should be convicted and removed from office. You might want to be a citizen instead of whining...
And then we get Mike Pence as President who will probably run and be elected in 2020 and probably serve 8 years. Not a problem, for me anyway. And at some point the Democrats will find themselves investigated and anything illegal they have done revealed.
Buckles,
You say the stupidest things....Trump will be impeached but not convicted because the GOP Senate will not remove no matter how egregious his crimes....That's OK...We'll use those Senators votes to savage them and take the Senate.....As for Pence he's a religious zealot who will never hold office again after he and Trump are booted next November....As Yoda would say....Clueless you are...
The best way to get rid of Trump & Pence is to vote both out of office in 2020, now, here comes another problem, who do the voters vote into office to replace them?
Pence was in serious danger of being defeated for re-election in Indiana, a red state. What makes you think he can win a national election, when most Americans see him nothing more than Trump's little bobblehead?
David Rayner -- It has more to do with "undoing" the results of the 2016 election. I did not vote for Donald Trump and he was definitely NOT the ideal candidate for POTUS. However, the impeachment talk was probably started before he even got the Republican Party nomination.
Nevertheless, impeachment is a political process and it lies totally within the domain of the House of Representatives. THEY and they alone get to decide what constitutes 'high crimes & misdemeanors'. Should they impeach the President, the real spectacle will be underway in the US Senate. It will likely garner more attention than the O.J. trial.
Jeff,
So....... It's Ok for the president to bribe a foreign government to interfere in our elections? Good to know that betraying our nation is fine by you....
That apparently is his story, Hal... ~~~ Bob
Nope.....I never said that.
Once again, I did not vote for Trump & his impeachment is in the hands of the House.
Hal, unless somehow somebody hacked into our computers and changed the vote totals, or dug into the boxes containing paper ballots and changed those, there is no election interference. I don't like other nations sticking their noses into our business, which is why I don't like the UN and don't like a certain billionaire from overseas trying to do things to affect our nation, however, so far, I have not seen anything about other nations being able to interfere with our vote counting. Also, while I have wondered about President Trump at times, I also have wondered if perhaps he heard what a certain American politician was doing overseas and felt that he could not trust our intelligence agencies and the FBI to investigate it. I hope that when the dust finally settles the political garbage, on BOTH SIDES, will stop and officials go back to serving our nation like they are SUPPOSED to be doing.
Buckles,
More excuses for the Russian asset/useful idiot. All the rest of your post is nonsense and gibberish....
Hal, Jeff and others are pushing the silly idea that Democrats are trying to "undo" the election of 2016. What utter nonsense. How do you "undo an election?" Trump was elected, nothing will ever "undo" that, no matter how hard some of his cultists push that meme, no matter how many of us rue the fact. He broke the laws of the nation, abused his powers for personal gain, and the constitutional remedy is removal from office by using the impeachment process. How in Pete's name is that the same as "undoing" an election?
Norbert,
The facts have shown that the whole Ukrainian mess is just a hoax and Russian disinformation campaign....And all these starch republicans and conservatives continue to spread these lies.....They are all helping the Russians...Sweet Jeebus....The stupid it burns....
"it burns:
Sounds like you should consult your pharmacist...
Hal, this is what happens when you disbelieve our own intelligence services and swallow what the Russians are serving up. Our FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, HSA, and every other one of our agencies have declared that the Russians have tried to convince the world that it was the Ukrainians who have interfered in our system, all in efforts to mask the stink of their own culpability. And Trump is trying everything in his power, including the use of his office, to strengthen that ploy. And even as this makes no sense (why would the Ukrainians intrude in our politics?) our gullible Trump cultists ignore all available evidence and side with the Russians, against their own country. Ignorance bordering on treason.
More BS from SGT. "TRUE BELIEVER"... Look it up, Sarge... Oh, that's actually a bus drivers uniform??? My bad... ~~~ Bob
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